Curse

The Josip · Jan 04, 2010, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Right now there are a lot of insane buffs for melee chars. With H/H's behind your back (1 player, 7 AI), what would your melee mesmer build look like if you wanted to make one? What buffs would your team cast/keep on you?

sonofthort · Jan 04, 2010, 02:04 AM // 02:04

daggers might work well, use zealous, and a jagged->fox fangs->death blossom combo, with an energy gaining combo also, like golden lotus strike->lotus strike->death blossom. That gives you 3 opened skill slots for an elite from any attribute u can think of. Visions of regret might be good, aswell as shared burden. I would keep one slot opened for an IMS, such as dash. The final slot could be asuran scan, would buff your damage even more.

maxxfury · Jan 04, 2010, 02:30 AM // 02:30

If you do this you need a VERY good reason imo to not go /w for abusing Sy...

AtomicMew · Jan 04, 2010, 02:49 AM // 02:49

The sad story is, mesmers don't really offer anything valuable to a melee build. You can try something gimmicky like echo-cyclone axe, but meh.

RedDog91 · Jan 04, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

while its not necesarily "melee"...you could always IW with a sword and stay alive with dervish enchantments.
Constant, unblockable, un-blindable 41 dmg every second. And if you get the enchantments right, its pretty funny when they can't kill you.
I love ticking people off in RA this way. Its one of my few pleasures left in the game after 4 years
>.>

joshuarodger · Jan 05, 2010, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedDog91

while its not necesarily "melee"...you could always IW with a sword and stay alive with dervish enchantments.
Constant, unblockable, un-blindable 41 dmg every second. And if you get the enchantments right, its pretty funny when they can't kill you.
I love ticking people off in RA this way. Its one of my few pleasures left in the game after 4 years
>.>

if you're going to IW with derv skills for defense, why not use a scythe to hit up to 3 things at once?

Purus Sapientia · Jan 05, 2010, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuarodger

if you're going to IW with derv skills for defense, why not use a scythe to hit up to 3 things at once?

I'd assume he was thinking the extra attack speed and defense would be preferable over the AoE effect of the scythe but, expanding on his idea, here's something I just threw together.

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12 Illusion
9 Earth/Wind Prayers
3 Scythe Mastery (Just thrown in from extra points in case IW is stripped)

Distortion
Whirling Charge (Alternating the two stances for IAS and move speed or defense)
Dwayna's Touch
Vital Boon
Mystic Regeneration
IW
Illusion of Weakness
Rez Sig

Again, this is just something I threw together for RA, in which it seemed to do pretty well, although there were some energy problems, any suggestions?

The Josip · Jan 05, 2010, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Well it was with PvE in mind so PvE skills allowed.

JaeMi · Jan 05, 2010, 09:59 AM // 09:59

I don't think you need all that healing... Dwayna's touch, Vital Boon, Mystic Regeneration... it's really too much in my opinion. If I had to use Me/D, I would prefer:

12 Illusion
9 Wind
9 Inspiration
3 FC (more useful than scythe mastery)

Illusionary Weaponry
Channeling
Illusion of Pain
Ethereal Burden
Kitah's Burden
Whirling Charge
Ether Feast
Res Sig

EDIT: wasn't paying enough attention. The above build is for RA.

upier · Jan 05, 2010, 11:30 AM // 11:30

IW doesn't make sense in PvE.
Period.

The problem with mesmers is that the guys could wield a weapon, but there is absolutely nothing you gain by going mesmer. Other guys will just do it better.
Having said that - I'd probably go with a SY! spammer. Especially with the incoming Tactics buff.

JaeMi · Jan 06, 2010, 11:50 AM // 11:50

How do you know theres an incoming Tactics buff? I'm a bit oblivious to any sort of announcement so if you could link me to a source it would be appreciated.

upier · Jan 06, 2010, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaeMi

How do you know theres an incoming Tactics buff? I'm a bit oblivious to any sort of announcement so if you could link me to a source it would be appreciated.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/n...t10417638.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Hi everyone. I just posted this to my wiki to let you know what we're currently working on with the next skill balance:

The Test Krewe has been discussing many proposed skill balance changes in preparation for the next balance update. The next skill balance update will not be released this month, but we would still like to give you a few more details of what our developers are working on, with feedback from the Test Krewe. Please keep in mind that not all of these changes may make it into the next skill balance and there is the possibility of different changes making it in, however we just wanted to give you an idea of some of the projects we’re undertaking at this time. The upcoming skill balance falls into two categories: addressing pressing issues, and tackling other issues.

Pressing Issues

Shadow Form – Shadow Form is a formidable build, providing blanket protection against both attacks and spells. The developers and Test Krewe are taking a look at a couple of options, including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
Possible Changes to 600 Smite – The effects of this build on the game are less pronounced than other extreme farming builds, however it operates on the same basic premise of making a character invulnerable all of the time. The developers are looking at changes to some of the skills in this build.
Balancing Midline Spike – Several skills have been identified as overpowered. Several of these skills have brought more damage and defense to GvG midlines than we'd like. This de-emphasizes distinctions in roles between frontline and midline characters and removes some of the versatility we've seen in midline characters in the past.
Addressing Fast Cast Blood Spike – The Test Krewe is currently taking a look at a couple of proposals targeted to address the cornerstone of this team build.
4v4 Issues – We’re looking at both Illusion of Pain and Ebon Dust Aura in terms of addressing issues in the 4v4 format.

Addressing Other Issues

Again, please keep in mind that not all of these changes may make it into the next skill balance, and the changes may be different.

Hammer Mastery – Hammer suffers from a number of issues that make it difficult to take over other Warrior weapons in PvE. For example, the combination of high adrenaline costs, slow attack rate, and battles ending relatively quickly in PvE mean that it can be hard to use skills before a battle is over and mean that being blocked feels much harsher. We’re looking at a number of approaches to address these and other issues.
Tactics – Tactics is the least exciting Warrior attribute and primarily sees use as a secondary attribute on other classes. We’re considering several options to address the weaknesses of Tactics.

JaeMi · Jan 06, 2010, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Thanks. Although, I think that this comment implies that non-Warrior classes won't benefit that much from the tactics buff.

Anarion Silverhand · Jan 06, 2010, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Fevered Dreams could be an option, especially with an Assassin or Dervish secondary profession. Fragility could be used along with it.

However, Fevered Dreams doesn't seem to be pumped very much through attribute points, making it just as useful on an Assassin or Dervish primary. Although the longer dazed duration could make it useful, especially in a team with several frontline characters.

That being said, I haven't really played much with Fevered Dreams, so I could be wrong.

upier · Jan 06, 2010, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Who knows, maybe they will buff the offensive side of tactics.

Xenomortis · Jan 06, 2010, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Fevered Dreams could be an option, especially with an Assassin or Dervish secondary profession. Fragility could be used along with it.

However, Fevered Dreams doesn't seem to be pumped very much through attribute points, making it just as useful on an Assassin or Dervish primary. Although the longer dazed duration could make it useful, especially in a team with several frontline characters.

That being said, I haven't really played much with Fevered Dreams, so I could be wrong.

I'm failing to see why FD would be good with any of those professions.
The viable professions are Mesmer, Elementalist and Necromancer as far as I can tell.
I wouldn't recommend FD on someone running into the frontlines. Then again, I wouldn't recommend a mesmer to be the one doing that. They have no means of increasing their damage output.

Anarion Silverhand · Jan 06, 2010, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I'm failing to see why FD would be good with any of those professions.
The viable professions are Mesmer, Elementalist and Necromancer as far as I can tell.
I wouldn't recommend FD on someone running into the frontlines. Then again, I wouldn't recommend a mesmer to be the one doing that. They have no means of increasing their damage output.

Right, and what's the topic about again?

It's about how to utilize the melee buffs on a mesmer. I'm not saying it's optimal in a PvE setting, but it IS what we're discussing.
And I'm failing to see how FD suffers from being coupled with an assassin secondary (who can dish out some conditions) or a dervish secondary (which can do the same).

Especially the last remark in your post pretty much proves that you haven't read the topic..

Xenomortis · Jan 06, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Especially the last remark in your post pretty much proves that you haven't read the topic..

...
I'm fully aware on what the topic of this thread is. My point was I do not think FD is suitable for a frontliner.
If you want the dazed condition then you could spec Me/A for Temple Strike instead.

However the only reason I can see for a caster to decide to rush forward into melee for PvE is for Save Yourselves in a H/H setting, which you cannot bring as a Me/A or Me/D.

The buffs you would put on the mesmer are a trivial consideration, they would simply be the same as any frontliner. SoH, Splinter and perhaps Orders.
The thing is, you gain so little because the Mesmer cannot bring anything for himself.

Anarion Silverhand · Jan 06, 2010, 01:51 PM // 13:51

My point was that FD + the assassin's ability to inflict conditons mean condition spread. Temple strike does indeed inflict dazed, but only on one target.

As for FD not being suitable for a frontliner, Fevered Dreams Assassin's have been around for a long time.

But like I said, I'm not sure that the extra attributes a mesmer is able to pump into Illusion Magic makes a bigger difference than an Assassin carrying FD. Fragility would maybe be worth it, as it's from the same attribute line.

What I'm trying to do is think of things that the mesmer can bring to the frontline, considering there are a myriad of buffs for frontliners out there.

Sorry if I was being condescending, I think I may have misunderstood your previous post.

The Josip · Jun 14, 2010, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Thread necromancy.

Here's the thing. I only have 1 PvE character now, which is mesmer. Once upon a blue moon I'd like to try melee. I know that mesmer offers pretty much nothing in terms of melee, but I am not going to create a new character when I feel like meleeing. If I wanted to do that, I would not have deleted Dervish. I don't have time to play multiple chars and probably any char for that matter.

Post buff

I'm mainly curious about this:

* What would be a good skillbar for crazy melee mesmer (HM PvE).
* What would be a good skillbar for his heroes.
* Did recent buff bring anything, such as maybe PI, that might be useful on melee mesmer.

My main concerns:
* Sword? Scythe?
* 3 best PvE skills? For a drunkard, Drunken Master worth the slot? Asuran Scan - enough energy for it? Worth it? SY I guess?
* How to organize hero support. 1 SoS splinter hero? 1 E/Mo with SoH? So I can prot myself manually with prot spirit. And then just plain old MB? Or should I bother with putting Barbs on hero? (Never liked that). Is Balthazar spirit worth it and can hero maintain it on me without him running into energy problems?
* What elite should I use? Hundred Blades? PI for lols?

Note: I'm obviously not trying to beat sins/wars/dervs in efficiency, so I accept choices which might be slightly weaker but much more fun (original) to play.

Note: I would prefer "flow" combat style rather than "swing 2x then cast, swing 2x then stop, cast, move". It was really annoying on a dervish to stop for enchants all the time. I'll still accept the suggestion and look into it, but that's one thing that keeps me away from /D.

PuG version

What would be 8-skill PuG version you'd suggest? You know, for the fun of it I join some PuG and I'm - crazy melee mesmer

And everyone is like wtf get out

I can't count on any team buff, so I need to rely on myself.

---

ps: I'm trying a skillbar with PI, Symbolic Celerity, + Dolyak / Healing Sig / Sig of Stamina - might be interesting. While none terribly helpful, at least there's some mesmer bonus to it. Also, Fast Casting will apply on Healing signet because it's 2 seconds. And with Dolyak, I can even tank in a PuG!

Btw I only use superior runes, so all this is with 16 FC effect.

pps: We have a winner. I tested a bit in Arjok HM. Elite is definitely PI. This skill is amazing. I admit I didn't prefer it as a caster mesmer because I wanted to do as much damage as possible. But as melee mesmer, I'm not going to beat other melee classes in damage. Save Yourselves means enemy will focus on me more. And when they do, PI will make sure as many are knocked down as possible. I didn't use Symbolic Celerity at all. Vekk was proting me nicely and the rest of the team was buffed with SY, so I was not even close to dying at any point. Not to mention that 4sec KD means a lot of damage mitigation as well. Sadly, but 16 attribute signets are not useful with prot spirit.
3 PvE skills: Drunken, SY and Asuran. Then FGJ (testing, is it worth it?), and Sun and Moon, Standing Slash, Steelfang.
Vekk also had Judges Insight, but I'm not sure if that skill is worth it.
I was also considering hammer because of deep wound and such, but don't think it's worth it because I lose SoH and other bonuses with slower attack time, and 1sec hammer attacks are useless in terms of damage. I quite liked Yeti too but after "buff" I totally dislike it.

As for killing time earlier, with no attack skills and just Symbolic melee attack (I just bought warrior tomes) - killing time was very good. I think it was mostly because Splinter is so good.

I also could use tips on what weapon mods to use (furious? zealous?...). I am testing with Murakai zealous sword. I also noticed that since I use sup rune anyway, I can lower down my FC to 12 without any negative effect and have Tactics at 10. This gives me full shield armor bonus.

ppps: Ok even with Asuran spam, I am always at maximum energy. So that's not optimized. I thnk I should have more energy based attacks instead. Like Soldier's Strike. Didn't like Steelfang much. And the problem with PI is that you can miss with it. Nevertheless it gives the mesmer flavor.

pppps: It just occurred to me that PI and SY have antisynergy somewhat. I know I don't use arcane echoed PI, but I am reluctant to drop PI because (as said earlier) it maintains mesmer feel. So I'm not just weaker version of something else. Now, I suppose I can keep both and optimize this - in which case I've too much heal in the team and can drop E/Mo protter with SoH and put SoH elsewhere. Whatever would do more damage. I could also drop SY and go /D. My main problem with that is slower attack speed (less bonus from SoH etc), and energy problem (most likely) because I'm not using adrenaline skills, as well as no shield so -16 armor (or more). Plus, is ability to hit multiple foes and some tricky / expensive sources of deep wound.

Essence of Celerity version

Since I might use this sometimes (but only with scythe variant if I go with that one) it might be good to point it out. This would make some stuff obsolete, like Drunken Master. Sure 20% and 33% are not the same but oh well.

What's with effect stacking? Is there any point in having Essence with high FC? Will Essence further reduce the recharge or not?